1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:13,760 Every year thousands of people observe strange phenomena in the sky. 2 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:20,560 Are they catching a furtive glimpse into another universe or simply observing natural phenomena? 3 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:26,560 It's the search and the desire to know the truth that determines how the object will be labeled. 4 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:31,600 IFOs for Identifiable Flying Object or Real UFOs. 5 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,800 British writer Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's hero Sherlock Holmes said, 6 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:43,600 when you have eliminated the impossible whatever remains however improbable must be the truth. 7 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:30,960 Discussions on the nature of UFOs remain extremely polarized 8 00:01:30,960 --> 00:01:35,440 between those who support the extraterrestrial theory and those who oppose it. 9 00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:42,000 This polarization is putting up a wall in debates and preventing the examination of further possibilities. 10 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:48,880 In 1997 at the invitation of American billionaire Lawrence Rockefeller, well-known scientists 11 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:56,080 gathered in Pocahontico, New Jersey to discuss UFOs. It was the first time since 1969 12 00:01:56,080 --> 00:02:00,560 when the Air Force dropped its investigation into the matter that a panel of scientists had 13 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:07,040 gotten together to discuss UFOs. Led by astrophysicist Peter Sturrock, these discussions brought the 14 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:19,600 strange sightings to the academic forefront. Mark Rodiger and John Schuchler were among the 15 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:25,520 scientists invited to the meeting. The purpose of the meeting was designed by Peter Sturrock 16 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:34,960 to do at least two things. One was to be a rebuttal as it were of the Condon Report. The 17 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:41,040 Condon Report of course had come out in the late 1960s and it had said that UFOs were not worth 18 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:46,400 studying scientifically. Sturrock had been very critical of that and he had always hoped that he 19 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:51,040 could get a group of scientists together to look at the phenomenon objectively and reach a different 20 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:55,920 conclusion which he thought would be justified. So that was the first thing. The second was to 21 00:02:55,920 --> 00:03:04,160 present some of the latest UFO evidence to a panel of distinguished scientists to see, to get 22 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:11,280 their advice on the subject, to see how they would react to UFO evidence that the scientific 23 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:19,840 community normally doesn't ever view. The meeting was held in 1997 to allow the examination of 24 00:03:19,920 --> 00:03:27,280 physical evidence presented by people that do research in the UFO field to be examined by people 25 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:33,040 outside the UFO field. In both cases these people were scientists, scientists receiving the information 26 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:39,360 of presenting it and then the scientists examining it and they were selected based on people that 27 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:45,520 could present the actual physical evidence, not stories, not wishful thinking, but evidence of 28 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:52,240 things happening, real photographs, real videos, real medical effects, real ground trace effects, 29 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:58,480 and that sort of thing. And in this field there's quite a bit of that. It isn't often talked about, 30 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:04,160 often discussed and Dr. Sturrock thought it would be well to be able to expose this to an independent 31 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:10,080 panel of people that had no interest or no knowledge of the subject and get their opinion on what could 32 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:14,560 be done or what should be done and how important it was. So that was the reason we met. 33 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:20,720 There wasn't anything amazing in the reports from the panel. I think the evidence was solid, 34 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:26,080 of course. I was there and presented some of it. I think it was evidence that the phenomena is anomalous, 35 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:33,280 but there wasn't anything so compelling that you would read the report and say, oh, why, this is 36 00:04:33,280 --> 00:04:41,200 astounding evidence. This really shows that this UFO phenomena is unearthly or alien or 37 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:47,040 can't be explained by science, absolutely. No, it was just good solid UFO evidence. 38 00:04:54,640 --> 00:05:00,080 The scientists gathered at Pocantico concluded that the UFO problem was not simple and was 39 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:05,920 certainly not the result of a general or single phenomenon. The report added that each unexplained 40 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:11,280 observation presented the scientific community with an opportunity to make new discoveries 41 00:05:11,280 --> 00:05:16,800 through the study of these phenomena. However, out in the field, the main difficulty in studying 42 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:24,560 UFOs is learning how to pinpoint what's relevant. Over the years, UFO circles have become such a 43 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:30,640 melting pot for all phenomena that it takes a lot of serious research to find any significant proof 44 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:39,040 within UFO reports. Between 1991 and 1994, Nick Pope was tasked by the British government 45 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:44,720 to assess the pile of UFO sightings recorded by their Ministry of Defense. He therefore had 46 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:49,360 ample opportunity to appraise the quality of the statements made by witnesses. 47 00:05:49,840 --> 00:06:02,880 I think it's quite clear that 90 or 95 percent of UFO sightings are either 48 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:09,840 misidentifications of something quite ordinary, but perhaps seen in unusual viewing conditions 49 00:06:09,840 --> 00:06:16,240 or by a witness who is not familiar with the particular object or phenomenon. But there are 50 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:24,960 these hard core of cases and there has been, you know, right from the beginning of our official 51 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:30,160 investigations in this. And this is as true for the Americans with Project Blue Book as it is for 52 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:37,040 the British. There are these sightings that we can't explain. Good quality sightings. I'm not 53 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:43,440 talking about cases where we have insufficient data. I'm talking about the sorts of cases where we have 54 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:51,520 say police or military witnesses or pilots say who are seeing solid structured craft. 55 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:56,560 I'm talking about the cases where things attract on radar. I'm talking about cases where 56 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:03,760 Air Force jets have been scrambled to try and intercept these things and where perhaps we have 57 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:12,000 good photographic or video evidence that has been properly analyzed and enhanced. These sorts of 58 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:22,720 cases. And when looking at these cases, I certainly, I am quite favorably disposed to the extraterrestrial 59 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:29,200 hypothesis because when I've eliminated everything else, that seems to be a very real possibility. 60 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:36,640 Can I prove it? No, I can't. We do not have proof. But in my mind, we do have good evidence. 61 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:44,560 UFO sightings are an undeniable fact proven by the thousands of statements and recordings that 62 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:50,880 have been submitted. These sightings happen. Explaining them is another thing. Making a broad 63 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:56,400 statement that they're all false or they're all true based on a single explanation seems rather 64 00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:03,120 simplistic to me. The truth of the matter remains to be seen. It's true that most cases are false 65 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:08,080 alarms. In our work, we have proven that most cases are the result of an honest error made by 66 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:13,200 the observer. While now and then we see cases where the error was made intentionally or designed as a 67 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:25,120 hoax. In actual fact, what happens most of the time is that a person comes face to face with 68 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:31,760 something that they do not understand. And they contact the police in the hopes of getting an 69 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:39,200 answer to the mystery. Of all the sightings that are reported, practically none of them turns out 70 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:50,640 to be a hoax. I would say maybe one hoax per thousand cases reported. But for all of the other 71 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:57,200 cases reported, there is no reason why there needs to be one single explanation. The proof is the 72 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:02,000 fact that we're discovering new things every day like sprites in the upper atmosphere, which we 73 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:07,440 discovered a few years ago. They might explain some of the strange lights seen by aircraft in the 74 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:13,920 sky. So there's certainly a whole gamut of explanation. The extraterrestrial theory is 75 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:20,240 simply a projection based on a desire to believe and for good reason. If we take a look at aviation 76 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:25,760 files and radar data which seem to show objects displaying intelligent behavior, we're very tempted 77 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:32,560 to believe just that. In actual fact, it's only one possible explanation. Unfortunately, 78 00:09:32,560 --> 00:09:38,400 ufologists usually have nothing more to go on than statements made by witnesses. How valuable are 79 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:43,040 these statements really? Rationalists tend to discard them under the pretext that a statement 80 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:48,880 alone has no inherent value. We must exercise caution in considering these statements, but they 81 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:54,080 are still a valuable source of information. If statements people make are truly of no value, 82 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:58,800 then we might as well shut down the court system. Critics like to point out that when it comes to 83 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:04,320 witnessing a UFO phenomenon, most people are not used to observing phenomena in the sky, 84 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:13,520 even police officers and pilots. Arguments are always being raised against UFO stories, 85 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:18,720 usually by rationalists, because there's a difference between scientists who work as researchers 86 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:24,400 and rationalists who adamantly oppose any stories of UFOs. Their argument is that astronomers don't 87 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:30,160 see UFOs. If all these things were flying around in the sky, then scientists, especially astronomers, 88 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:35,680 would see them. The problem is that astronomers spot UFOs the same way as everyone else. We know 89 00:10:35,680 --> 00:10:40,880 that for a fact. Peter Sturrock, an astrophysicist from Stanford University, did a study back in 90 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:48,000 1977 which showed just that. Another study showed that 5% of UFO observers were astronomers, 91 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:52,720 so they do see things too. But what does an astronomer actually do? He doesn't look at the 92 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:57,920 whole sky, just like scientists don't look at nature. They look at their instruments. A telescope 93 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:03,760 has a very small field of vision. If an astronomer were to see a UFO, it would only appear in passing 94 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:09,280 like a satellite, a meteorite, or a bird. It would be very rare. They wouldn't have time to focus on 95 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:14,320 the object. It would be gone before they knew it. When they see a meteorite fly by, they don't make 96 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:20,080 anything of it. So astronomers do see strange things in the sky, but not usually while they're 97 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:28,560 working. There's a genuine problem. When UFOs are discussed, some people say that they don't exist. 98 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:35,120 The problem is not whether UFOs exist or not. The problem is that tons of arguments seem to be 99 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:41,440 based on the idea that scientists observe nature, so they should be seeing UFOs. Scientists do not 100 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:47,600 observe nature. They produce facts under laboratory conditions, very specific artificial conditions 101 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:51,840 that do not correspond to the image of science portrayed in popular science magazines. 102 00:11:56,160 --> 00:12:01,440 Most UFO sightings have a perfectly rational explanation. They should not be considered 103 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,760 of alien origin until all of the elements involved have been thoroughly analyzed. 104 00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:09,600 This analysis stage contains many hidden traps. 105 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:15,120 Although they represent a very small percentage of objects reported, 106 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:21,600 weather balloons can be mistaken for UFOs. Even seasoned observers like civil and military pilots 107 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,080 have been fooled by these large silver spheres. 108 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:34,320 Don Ledger, a Canadian civil pilot and co-author of Dark Object, took a keen interest in UFO 109 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:40,960 sightings reported by his colleagues. He is familiar with the most common misinterpretations, 110 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:47,520 like weather balloons, Venus, aircraft, auroras, meteorites, and billow clouds. 111 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:56,320 Normally, getting off track a bit here, usually large scientific balloons, and they are large. 112 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:01,280 Some of these things are 300 feet across. They're filled with helium and they're carrying scientific 113 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:08,640 packages. We'll get a no-tam as a pilot. You'll get a no-tam with your boat every three months 114 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:13,200 in the mail from Transport Canada. It's no-tam that this thing is going to be lifting off from a 115 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:17,600 certain area, usually up north, where the air is more stable and where they're investigating anyway. 116 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:22,720 These things will go up 80,000, 90,000 feet. As they go up, you've probably seen the older 117 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:26,960 pictures of them. They look long and skinny, almost like a baseball bat, and they start looking like 118 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:31,520 an ice cream or a parachute. But by the time they get to altitude, they bloom right up because the 119 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:37,840 air pressure is less up there. So they turn into this big oval shiny thing because of the makeup of 120 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:42,320 the material, you know, the cavilar, or not cavilar, but the mylar that makes these things up, 121 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:48,080 and can carry up to 4 million cubic feet of helium in there. And they can drift around up in the 122 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:53,520 upper atmosphere for days and days and days, reflecting sunlight, and people will report them. 123 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:57,120 And that's really, they have every right to, because it's quite anomalous looking up there, 124 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:01,920 and it's sparkling away. So they account for some UFO reports and so on. 125 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:09,200 There aren't that many weather balloons. They're launched in northern Quebec. Winds are predominantly 126 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:13,840 from the west, so don't try to tell me that these supposed weather balloons are traveling from north 127 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:18,400 to south. Okay, now that I've made that perfectly clear, let's drop this whole weather balloon 128 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:22,800 business. Skeptics better come up with a better explanation than that, because according to them, 129 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:27,680 weather balloons are everywhere. All UFOs are weather balloons. Observers have more chance of 130 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:32,400 seeing an aircraft since planes are aluminum and may be painted white, so when the sun is low on the 131 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:38,240 horizon, it can reflect off the cabin. The wings can't be seen. Just a fine white line in the sky, 132 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:43,040 so since the object is far away and can't be heard, it can be mistaken for UFO. 133 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:51,120 Venus is also a possibility. Most people in Quebec travel between Montreal and Quebec City. 134 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:58,400 So they travel east-west on highways 10, 20 and 40, which means they may spot Venus setting in the 135 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:06,640 west. If you see Venus setting in the north, call me, because it isn't Venus. Of all the planets, 136 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:12,880 Venus is the one that is most often mistaken for a UFO. So what I'm saying is that people may be 137 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:18,160 mistaking aircraft and planets for UFOs. That's true, but it's time they stop trying to tell us 138 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,160 that people are seeing weather balloons. 139 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:30,560 In the spring of 2002, a Montreal businessman filmed a curious sight in the sky. It was very early 140 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:36,960 in the morning and the object showed up clearly against the morning sky. Upon analysis, it was 141 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:41,680 discovered that the object was nothing more than a male plane arriving at the local airport. 142 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:48,560 At times, the source of confusion is much more simple. Officer Nelson Jean with the Quebec 143 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:52,560 Provincial Police recalls a UFO sighting recorded at his station. 144 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:02,160 At the time, we were responsible for covering Monterey G, Montreal, Laval, the Laurentians and 145 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:08,240 L'Enaudière. As I recall, it happened near Saint-July. People called to report colored lights in 146 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:14,000 the sky. When our police officers arrived at the scene, they traced the lights back to a dance 147 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:19,520 club. Someone was either accidentally or intentionally projecting laser beams into the 148 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:24,240 sky, which was leading people in the area to think that they were seeing something from 149 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:28,240 outer space, perhaps a UFO or a signal from extraterrestrials. 150 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:36,720 Other than laser beam projectors, aircraft and weather balloons, we also need to consider 151 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:42,000 objects entering Earth's atmosphere, orbital debris which is becoming more and more common. 152 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:47,600 A few years ago, during a similar incident over France, the state police were inundated 153 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:52,480 with calls throughout the country from citizens wishing to report a UFO sighting. 154 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:58,640 At the time, Jean-Jacques Velasco was already heading up the French group CEPRA, which tracks 155 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:03,600 objects entering Earth's atmosphere. It is an agency working for the French National Space 156 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:09,680 Research Center, otherwise known as CNES. We've noticed that these days, a lot of sightings 157 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:16,640 result from debris falling from objects in orbit. This was the case on November 5th, 1990, 158 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:24,640 when we witnessed an amazing display of debris from a Russian rocket. The debris was scattered 159 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,640 throughout the skies over Europe, particularly over France. 160 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:38,880 Films and photographs can be useful tools to ufologists, as they try to make heads or tails 161 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:46,880 out of a UFO sighting. But once again, a visual aid in itself does not constitute proof that UFOs 162 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:54,880 are alien in origin. This is true even more so, now that new computer technology is being 163 00:17:54,880 --> 00:18:00,880 allowed to fake photos that look as professional as anything produced in Hollywood. 164 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:07,680 Well, as you know, I'm quite familiar with the field of photography, since I worked as an expert 165 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:13,520 in this area when I was with CNES. I came to the conclusion that it is one of the most disappointing 166 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:19,200 aspects of UFO cases. Why do you think that this is the case? Because it is a very complex 167 00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:24,560 I came to the conclusion that it is one of the most disappointing aspects of UFO cases. 168 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:29,680 Why do I think that? Well, first of all, it's the element that evokes the most emotional response 169 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:35,120 and most expectations from the public. We often hear people say, if only we had a good picture 170 00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:40,400 of this, we could check into it further. In actual fact, nothing is further from being solid proof 171 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:47,040 than a single photo on its own. That was true even 15 or 20 years ago. Back then, I received funding 172 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:54,160 to study all the tricks involved in photo analysis. We noticed that some people were very clever 173 00:18:54,160 --> 00:19:01,920 at faking photos. Nowadays, with computer technology, anyone can use commercial software to touch up 174 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:10,080 photos. I've had a bet for 10 years that no one can produce a photo able to withstand photo analysis 175 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:16,720 tests. There are two types of photographs of so-called UFOs. There are the cases where the 176 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:21,600 witnesses are in a state of panic over something that they saw and there is little information 177 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:27,440 available. These pictures are typically a small white light against a dark background, or if 178 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:33,760 taken during the day, the object appears as a small dot in the sky, as was the case in Voip, 179 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:40,720 France, a few years ago, when object was photographed against a clear blue sky. Even using the most 180 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:46,560 powerful tools possible, the information extracted is minimal. Then there are the photos for which 181 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:52,320 more information is provided. At the other extreme, you have fake photos. They don't pop up as often as 182 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:57,200 you might think, but they still seem to be profitable in some countries. When I traveled in certain 183 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:02,320 southern countries, I noticed that books were being sold with fake photos in them. Generally, 184 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:07,840 they're pretty easy to spot. Then there's a majority of cases where an honest error is made. 185 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:14,080 This happens when a person sees something that appears strange to them, and they take a picture 186 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:20,000 of it only to discover later that it was simply the Aurora Borealis or some other uneventful 187 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:25,520 occurrence. There are also cases where something odd happens in the camera when a picture is taken. 188 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:30,560 Cases of optical phenomena or cases where something is on the film, I once saw a photo that had me 189 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:37,840 stumped for the longest time until I analyzed the film under a microscope. As far as misinterpretations 190 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:43,360 go, with respect to photos or home movies, a lot of people mistake reflections for UFOs. 191 00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:48,640 Many people use small camcorders these days, which is great for us UFO researchers, 192 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,480 since these films provide us with good visual material to analyze. 193 00:20:54,480 --> 00:21:00,640 I'll give you a quick trick for figuring out whether or not your photo or film has a reflection on it. 194 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:11,680 You just need to draw an X across your photo. Take a ruler and draw a light line with a pencil 195 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:16,960 from one corner up to the opposite corner. Then do the same with the other two corners. 196 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:23,040 This will give you the center of your picture. If the brightest object in your photo is a reflection, 197 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:27,760 then it will cross the center and keep on going an equal distance in the opposite direction. 198 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:33,120 The reflection can't be anywhere else. The angle of reflection is equal to the angle of incidence. 199 00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:38,560 This is a basic law of physics. People often take pictures through a window or a glass pane, 200 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:43,360 and cameras also have a protective lens covering, which can create reflections when a picture is 201 00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:48,800 being taken like a street led or distant car lights. The photographer doesn't see the sources in his 202 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:54,320 reduced field of vision. A car passes by, shines on the lens, and a small lens-shaped reflection 203 00:21:54,320 --> 00:22:00,160 appears on the photo. Before you call the press to say that you've just photographed a flying saucer, 204 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,840 you should double check to make sure that there are no reflections in your picture. 205 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:09,680 Only then should you consider that perhaps there really was an object in the sky. If there was 206 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:15,200 an object, then it's time for what I refer to as the investigative process, noting the color of 207 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:20,320 the object and calculating distances and so forth to determine the size and possibly the weight of 208 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:31,440 the object. At times, the so-called UFO is nothing more than an unidentified optical object. 209 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:37,440 In the early 1990s, there were several sightings of discs with scalloped edges, vaguely reminiscent 210 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:44,560 of the symbol used by the comic book hero Batman. According to the reports, these bat-shaped discs 211 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:49,920 first began to appear over Belgium, before spreading to Spain and then the United States. 212 00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:57,040 Unfortunately for mystery lovers, there was nothing exciting behind these UFOs. The image 213 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:03,600 was nothing more than a bright object, such as the moon or a streetlight filmed out of focus, 214 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:10,320 due to the focus ring on camcorders that had just come out on the market at the time. Speaking of 215 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:16,560 images, Earth is now constantly monitored by a network of satellites. Each day, these spies in 216 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:22,960 the sky take dozens of pictures of the Earth. Why aren't there any satellite images of UFOs? 217 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:30,080 Another mistake that ufologists often make with respect to satellite images is that they think, 218 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:35,120 if UFOs are flying around the Earth, we should see one appear on the satellite image now and then. 219 00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:39,680 When they say that, they obviously do not realize that remote sensing satellites circle 220 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:46,480 Earth every 90 minutes at an altitude of 500 to 600 miles. If we look at satellite images, 221 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:54,160 all we see is a bunch of tiny dots on a huge surface. Even if an army of 100 huge UFOs landed 222 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:59,680 on Earth within the space of a few hours, it is highly unlikely that they would be detected by 223 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:07,600 any of the dozens of satellites hovering over Earth. As we try to identify the unknown, 224 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:15,040 some UFOs defy explanation. At least, it would seem so at first glance. However, 225 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:20,080 just because we can't correctly label an object doesn't mean we should jump to the conclusion 226 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:26,240 that we're being invaded by aliens. Remember the term UFO does not necessarily mean 227 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:32,640 an interplanetary craft. Jean-Pierre Farrabeau was a research engineer working at a physics lab 228 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:39,360 within France's Polytechnical Institute. A few years ago, he wrote a book about unidentified flying 229 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:49,120 weapons. One possible explanation for UFOs is that they are secret military aircraft. 230 00:24:53,120 --> 00:24:58,640 A historian from the CIA even wrote a report claiming that most unexplained UFOs could 231 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,400 be attributed to flights by an aircraft referred to as the U-2. 232 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:14,000 Well, it's true that some of the U-2's flight plans did coincide with UFO sightings. 233 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:19,760 But in my opinion, this happened in a very small percentage of cases. 234 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:27,920 There's also the fact that the U-2 was flown for the first time in 1955, 235 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:36,960 whereas UFO sightings began to be reported regularly as of 1947. 236 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,920 So the U-2 could certainly be used to explain some of the sightings, 237 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,760 especially since it flies at a very high altitude. 238 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,920 And it has what you might call a halo effect. 239 00:25:54,240 --> 00:26:00,960 Although it is shaped like a glider, glare from the sun's rays may cause it to look circular 240 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:08,000 instead. The fact remains that it appeared in the sky too late to explain the first eight years 241 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:15,040 of UFO sightings. And there's still the fact that only a few of the U-2's flights correspond to 242 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:21,920 UFO sightings. There were other aircraft built after the U-2 that could have been mistaken for 243 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:27,200 UFOs due to their speed and high flying altitude. They were called Blackbirds. 244 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,520 Two different aircraft were built that closely resembled each other. 245 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:40,720 The CIA's A-12 and the Air Force's SR-71. But once again, the A-12 was flown for the first time in 1962, 246 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,680 so it could not account for any sightings before that time. 247 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,520 Naturally, it could account for some of the sightings reported since then. 248 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:52,080 While engineers at the Lockheed Aviation Corporation were designing the U-2 spy plane, 249 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:57,760 officials in charge of technical development within the U.S. Air Force were already conceiving of an 250 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:05,280 even more ambitious project named Project Silverbug. Their goal was to build a circular craft capable 251 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:11,760 of vertical lift off and able to fly at an altitude of 80,000 feet and a speed of Mach 3, 252 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:17,360 or three times the speed of sound. Development of Project Silverbug was assigned to engineers at 253 00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:22,160 the Canadian firm Avro, which had designed the lightweight Arrow CF-105. 254 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:28,160 The Avro car was an engineering study by the same company that produced the Arrow, 255 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:34,560 the infamous aircraft that was built by the Canadian government and then eventually cancelled. 256 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,720 In fact, there is a popular movie about it quite recently starring Dan Akroyd. 257 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:45,120 At the same time they were producing this jet aircraft, they were producing a circular vehicle 258 00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:50,000 that was said to be able to rise up on its own power and fly through the air. 259 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:56,480 A number of other devices like this had been produced, but this was the Canadian government's 260 00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:01,680 own attempts. Curiously, midway through the development, it too was cancelled. 261 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:17,360 Unable to rise more than a couple of feet off the ground, the Avro car was a failure. 262 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:25,440 Its instability made it dangerous to fly. In 1961, Project Silverbug was terminated, 263 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:30,400 and one of the only two models built is now installed on a pedestal in front of the U.S. 264 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:38,320 Army Transport School in Virginia. Could UFO tales have been inspired by test flights of 265 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:45,360 the Avro car or other secret prototypes with an unusual aerodynamic shape like the YB-49, 266 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:52,560 or perhaps the V-173, nicknamed the Flying Pancake? Or in more recent years, perhaps UFO 267 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:59,440 observers spotted the B-2 stealth bomber or the F-117A fighter, both of which have an unusual shape. 268 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:05,760 According to rumors, recent UFO sightings could be flights of a secret prototype being built in 269 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:10,880 the legendary Area 51, a triangular craft known by the codename Aurora. 270 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:23,120 Rumors that the Aurora exists have been spread by a magazine that is generally quite serious in 271 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:31,760 nature, the Aviation Week in Space Technology. An article was published in 1990 in which they 272 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:37,440 stated that there had been more than 40 sightings or telephone confirmations by sources within 273 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:44,960 the military, proving the existence of this aircraft, capable of flying at incredible speeds such as 274 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:52,640 Mach 5 to Mach 8 at extraordinary altitudes, much higher than the Blackbirds could fly. 275 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:08,960 I heard a lot about this aircraft. Around 1991, and for a year or two afterwards, 276 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:16,720 we heard reports of what were referred to as skyquakes. They were like earthquakes, but 277 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:22,640 they came from the sky. They came from the Pacific Coast over California, 278 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:30,640 and headed in the direction of Area 51. They would occur every Thursday morning like clockwork. 279 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:37,200 This was rather odd behavior for either a natural phenomenon or extraterrestrial beings. 280 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:42,960 We're not sure why Thursday morning was so important to them. So it seemed to be pretty 281 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:47,600 much of an established fact that it existed, and then we never heard anything more about it. 282 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,320 The U.S. Department of Defense formally denied that it existed. 283 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:57,680 We're under the impression that there are sightings of man-made crafts that we should normally be 284 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:02,880 able to explain, but they must be secret military craft, and that's why we can't explain them. 285 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,320 But even those don't explain all of the sightings. 286 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:17,120 There are other phenomena which might help to explain several UFO reports, 287 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:22,880 but they are more difficult to zero in on. There is a whole field of natural phenomena 288 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:28,160 which are mentioned now and then in scientific papers, but remain mysterious and unexplained, 289 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:34,160 such as the case for seismic lights, or earthquake lights, as they are sometimes called, 290 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:40,080 lights created by earthquakes. France Saint-Laurent has taken an interest in this strange phenomenon. 291 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:49,760 A few UFO reports, and I mean just a few, a very low percentage, can be explained by 292 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:56,560 earthquake lights. But I mean real earthquake lights. As far as I'm concerned, to be earthquake 293 00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:02,480 lights, they have to occur during an earthquake or immediately before or after it. There also needs 294 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:09,600 to be a link with tectonic strain. Before an earthquake occurs, there may be a period of months 295 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:15,520 or years during which major forces are at work under the Earth's surface at particular locations. 296 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:22,560 And as this stress builds, it can produce what I call tectonic lights, what others refer to as 297 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:32,400 earth lights. Well, actually the interest in luminous phenomena or UFO reports began with, 298 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:39,280 really, an empirical approach. We were looking at the, we meaning Juslain Lefrenier and I, 299 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:44,800 were looking at the relationship between unusual phenomena, balls of light, unusual animals, 300 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:51,040 and we tried to find out what could be related to them and we found that earthquakes tend to 301 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:56,480 occur in the same areas. So, as any science would, we pursued that and found out that, 302 00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:01,280 sure enough, luminous phenomena throughout the centuries have preceded increases in 303 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:05,920 earthquake activity. Let me address UFO phenomena, which are the balls of light, the unusual colors 304 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:11,440 of lights that inundate, or I should say inundate one's perceptual field, but they show an oscillation, 305 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:16,960 they often look like they're turning and basically different temperatures reflect different wavelengths 306 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:23,280 and different colors. Those are physical phenomena generated by the Earth's itself, strain within 307 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:28,160 the Earth, stress within the Earth, before earthquakes generate these balls of light. 308 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:33,440 And we know that's correct because in any given area, there's an increase in luminous phenomena 309 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,040 before earthquakes occur. 310 00:33:42,160 --> 00:34:01,120 The majority of luminous phenomena are tied to imminent earthquake activity, stress and strain 311 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:05,920 within the Earth and the reason we know that is that in areas where there's a buildup of water, 312 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:12,800 for example in reservoirs, or when people pump water into an area, for example to bury 313 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:19,200 hazardous fluids, there's increases in earthquakes locally and also an increase in luminous phenomena. 314 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:25,680 A very small number of luminous phenomena are associated with people having the experience 315 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:30,320 of contact with an alien or contact with some other entity. 316 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:40,880 We knew that in order to be seeing what we were seeing, there had to be a very strongly charged 317 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:51,520 electric field producing these luminous displays in the sky. We knew that since the 1960s and 1970s, 318 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:58,960 scientists have been trying to discover what causes these Earth lights to appear in the sky. 319 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,800 They made some discoveries and came up with a few theories. 320 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:09,680 Some scientists researched the lights in a laboratory setting, but what they often found 321 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:14,640 was that their theories only partially explained what was being observed. 322 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,480 There were gaps in their theories, but that doesn't matter, that's just normal. 323 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,040 After all, they were just starting to research the phenomenon. 324 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:27,440 Well, one thing we do know is that tectonic strain, 325 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,520 strain building up before an earthquake, is distributed along earthquake faults, 326 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:38,240 very often along riverbeds or creek beds on the top of hills, and a variety of unusual phenomena 327 00:35:38,240 --> 00:35:43,680 can be generated. Balls of light are simply one. Also, ultrasound can be generated, which very often 328 00:35:44,240 --> 00:35:50,160 rats or dogs can hear. Sometimes odd smells are generated. Sometimes if you have a peltier 329 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:55,840 phenomena, you get a decrease in temperature locally, or sometimes an increase in spontaneous fires. 330 00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,240 If you happen to be unfortunate enough to walk through these fields, it's going to stimulate 331 00:36:00,240 --> 00:36:06,560 your brain directly, and very often people experience a haunt. In our research, we find 332 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:11,760 that wherever you have luminous phenomena showing up, so-called UFO flap, you also have an increase 333 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:16,960 of all kinds of other parapsychological phenomena. Haunts, poltergeist reports, 334 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:22,640 basically strange things in general become more frequent, including mundane things, like more 335 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:29,200 light bulbs burned out, more alternators in your cars burned out, cars not starting, more anomalous 336 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:34,800 behavior by humans, for example, more suicidal behaviors from protracted depression. These 337 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:44,080 things often occur in clusters. Even though research into earth light is still in its early 338 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:50,880 stages, some scientists are beginning to find possible explanations. One of these scientists 339 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:56,160 is Friedman Freund, professor of physics at San Jose State University in California. 340 00:37:00,240 --> 00:37:08,560 Clearly by accident, I recently came across a scientist who works at San Jose State University 341 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:17,440 in California. He also works for the NASA Ames Research Center. He proposed a theory 342 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:27,680 and created a model to explain how these lights were being produced. I found his theory interesting 343 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:36,480 because it also explained why earthquake lights sometimes do not occur, since we have observed 344 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:42,720 that they do not occur with every earthquake. What is interesting about his theory is that it is 345 00:37:42,720 --> 00:37:49,600 based on a discovery that he made several years ago. Below the earth's surface, among igneous rocks, 346 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:56,800 which form most of the earth's crust, can be found something called charge carriers. I will not 347 00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:04,240 explain the chemistry behind it since it is pretty complicated. So he discovered these charge carriers, 348 00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:13,600 which he called positive hole pairs. When there is not much tectonic strain, these charge carriers 349 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:22,160 lie dormant in the rock. On the other hand, when the tectonic strain builds to the point where 350 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:29,840 an earthquake is about to occur, these charge carriers become quite mobile. In his laboratory, 351 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:35,920 Frund calculated that these charge carriers could move as fast as 1,000 feet per second. 352 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:42,640 That's pretty fast. So around the time of an earthquake, we have these charge carriers moving 353 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:49,680 about, spreading throughout the earth's crust. As these charges move, by definition, each one is a 354 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:57,280 current. In electronics, we call it a whole current. It has a positive charge due to a lack of electrons. 355 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:04,880 When these mobile charges hit the earth's surface, they generate electromagnetic waves of various 356 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:13,040 wavelengths. They then create a strong electric field at the earth's surface. Frund calculated 357 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:19,040 that in an ideal setting, for instance, at the top of a mountain, the charge could get as high as 358 00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:25,840 1 million volts per centimeter. That's a pretty powerful electric field. 359 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:36,240 Once this electric field is created, it puts a strain on the air, which is normally an insulator, 360 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:44,880 and the air changes from an insulator to a conductor and produces luminous displays in the sky. 361 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:56,160 One of the conclusions that scientists arrived at during the Pucantico meetings in 1997 was that 362 00:39:56,160 --> 00:40:04,000 UFO sightings do not boil down to one single phenomenon. Research by Dr. Michael Persinger 363 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:09,600 at Laurentian University in Sudbury shows that the assessment of these sightings goes beyond a mere 364 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:19,440 I believe in UFOs or I don't believe in UFOs. One of the lessons we learn in science is that 365 00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:27,280 phenomena such as UFOs, luminous phenomena, that is an over-inclusive label. I'm giving an example. 366 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:35,360 In the late 1800s, the word vapors was used to describe pneumonia, emphysema, tuberculosis, 367 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:41,280 the common cold, and flu as well as cancer. They were all called the vapors because they 368 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:46,240 influenced breathing. Now imagine what would have happened if penicillin was developed then, 369 00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:51,040 and you gave it to people with vapors. Well, only those with pneumonia would have been beneficial, 370 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:55,920 and people would have dismissed penicillin because it did not treat vapors. The problem is the label. 371 00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:03,200 It's over-inclusive. The same thing with the UFO label. It over-includes a lot of strange phenomena. 372 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:09,200 Most of them have very clear natural bases that we know about now, but there's still others we 373 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:15,360 have to be open-minded about. And just because we're open-minded doesn't mean it's never measurable, 374 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:21,680 which means we ultimately can measure it. In the perspective of science, anything is probable, 375 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:29,120 and if we have a phenomenon such as UFOs or basically luminous phenomena, that's more 376 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:34,160 appropriate way to describe them because UFOs is a pejorative label with all kinds of negative 377 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:41,200 connotations, odd luminous events. Most of them we know from our data analysis, more than 80%, 378 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:45,600 are clearly tied to tectonic strain. We're talking about the real ones now, not the misperceptions. 379 00:41:46,240 --> 00:41:52,640 The remaining 20%, it's hard to tell what the actual natural forces are, and the possibility 380 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:59,440 that there are other phenomena yet to be discovered, including other intelligences, 381 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,840 we still must be open-minded to that possibility. 382 00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:10,320 In general, the scientific community is not interested in UFOs. Why? Obviously, 383 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:15,200 there is the ever-present funding problem. What self-respecting financial institution would 384 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:22,480 put its credibility on the line by financing research into UFOs. No funding, no research. 385 00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:28,800 But there is a worse problem, prejudice. To most scientists, the logic is quite simple. 386 00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:34,560 If UFOs were real, then there would have to be extraterrestrial spaceships. And since 387 00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:41,520 interstellar travel is not possible, UFO reports cannot be true. In all research, 388 00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:47,360 observation must take precedence over theory. As Robert Layton, one of the pioneers of modern 389 00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:53,120 physics, once said, if something happens, it's because it's possible for it to happen. 390 00:42:54,400 --> 00:43:00,640 But of all the strange cases that defy explanation, how many are really prototypes of secret military 391 00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:07,120 aircraft, and how many are really due to natural phenomena as yet unknown? Could the other cases 392 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:13,120 really be visitors from outer space? For now, it's impossible to say for sure. If there's one 393 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:18,160 thing that holds true in the police world, it's that if you want to solve a problem, you must 394 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:24,560 take an interest in it. We noticed that the science community turned its back on the 395 00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:30,320 Pocantico report. We weren't too surprised, since they've always had that attitude where 396 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:36,720 this subject is concerned. I recently did an audit on the CNES Research Center, and along the way, 397 00:43:36,720 --> 00:43:43,280 I met some prominent scientists from the technical field. I won't name any names, but I was stupefied 398 00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:48,720 by what some of them had to say. In their minds, the only things that truly exist in the field of 399 00:43:48,720 --> 00:43:54,160 science are things that can be created in a laboratory setting. If the great minds of science 400 00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:59,440 in all countries think like this, then we're not about to make much headway in the science of observation. 401 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:06,640 The problem with UFOs is that we don't see them in abundance. We can say the same thing about 402 00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:12,320 scientific facts. Who has ever seen a scientific fact? If anyone ever has, I'd like to meet them. 403 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:18,320 It's impossible. Scientific facts are charts, diagrams, and things you read about in magazines. 404 00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:23,440 You never hear anyone say, look, I just saw a scientific fact. If we take a cloud, for instance, 405 00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:28,880 sure it's a scientific fact, but only because it's been studied. Scientific facts do not appear 406 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:34,080 out of thin air. Apples falling from trees were used to make jam long before they became associated 407 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:39,040 with the law of gravity. Newton had to invent the law of gravity first. By the way, the apple 408 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:44,880 story never even happened. So we have a problem. To become a scientific fact, it must first be 409 00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:50,000 placed in the proper context. So the question is, what can we do with these UFO reports to capture 410 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:54,480 the interest of scientists? We need to word the problem differently. Just because it's worded in 411 00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:59,360 terms of UFOs doesn't mean that the problem should be discarded completely with the claim that UFOs 412 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,640 don't exist, that's simply not reasonable.